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  Interviewer: 鈥奡o, welcome, Dr. Lynous Hall. Is that how you pronounce it? Lynous?

  Interviewee: Lynous.

  Interviewer: Lynous. Okay. Lynous Hall. Dr. Lynous Hall. Thank you so much for doing this interview with us today. It’s just really impactful to have the experiences of Black alum at 黑料网 be shared and publicized, especially as a current M1 Black student at 黑料网. So, I’d like to just go ahead and get started with your origin story. So, you can give me where you’re born and date of your birth.

  Interviewee: I was born in Raleigh. March 11, 1939.

  Interviewer: Okay. And what was your family like? And what was it like growing up with them?

  Interviewee: Well, the earliest I remember in which my mother and father were together was when we were leaving North Carolina and moving to Baltimore.

  Interviewer: Oh.

  Interviewee: My father went to Baltimore earlier and asked for a job near the waterfront. And he says he asked them how much were they paying? And they told him $20 a week. Well, he said he was in Raleigh. He was making $9 a week. So, he decided he was gonna leave North Carolina and go to Baltimore. He borrowed their truck, put all of our belongings on the truck, and we drove to Baltimore. I remember going across the Susquehanna River Bridge between DC and Maryland and looking out and seeing all of that water. I had never seen so much in my life. Subsequently going to Baltimore, we lived maybe four blocks down from Johns Hopkins University.

  And I remember that we had a apartment that was on the first floor. And this was also during the war.

  Interviewer: Oh wow.

  Interviewee: I remember blackouts in Baltimore. And what made me remember this was that this was the first time I ever had popcorn. I had popcorn during the blackout. I remember when the war ended. People were shooting in the air and celebrating and that sort of thing. Prior to that or subsequent to that, we moved to Edgewood, Maryland. Which is the home for one of the military’s chemical warfare plant. My mother worked there in the warfare plant. My father worked as a cabinetmaker. So, this was Edgewood, Maryland. We lived in the projects. Great time. All of the kids knew each other. We knew the parents. We played together. I don’t know anybody who was ever depressed. We had so much fun.

  Interviewer: That sounds great.

  Interviewee: My parents subsequently divorced after the war, and we moved back to North Carolina and lived with my grandparents. My grandfather owned a farm. And he raised everything from hogs to cows to chickens to rabbits, tobacco, cotton, corn, peanuts.

  Interviewer: Oh wow.

  Interviewee: And I hated the farm life. And I hated it because it was hot, it was long, and I missed my friends from Edgewood. I played little league baseball. John Spriggs and I were the only two Black kids on the team. The rest of the kids鈥� parents were military people. Uh, John was the pitcher. I was a catcher. And I got traded just like the big boys do. But anyway, we were in line to go to Williamsport, Pennsylvania, where Little League World Series is held. And I missed it. And I just regretted it and felt that nature held me back. Subsequently to that, I went to DuBois High School in Wake Forest in middle school. After that because we were outside of the city limits, I had to transfer.

  I was supposed to go to a school in Method, which is just outside of Raleigh. Well, I didn’t wanna go there because 鈥渢hey taught all these courses for either farming or home economics.鈥� I wasn’t gonna be either one of them. So, I went to school in Raleigh. At that time, Ligon High School was the first new Black high school in Raleigh during the period of segregation. It was beautiful time. It was a time in which we challenged each other. There was no fighting, no drugs, only guys walking down the street with cigarettes. A pack of cigarettes only cost 15 cents. So, everybody had a pack of cigarettes. That was our vice. A pack of cigarettes.

  So, at Ligon I played football, played baseball, made the National Honor Society, and had two really influential teachers in high school. English teacher and my chemistry teacher. I still remember both of them. I remember they were like parents. They instilled in challenges daily. And our classmates challenged us daily. Not physically, but you 鈥渉ad to be somebody to be from Ligon.鈥� I thought I was somebody. So, after I finished high school, I got a partial scholarship at Shaw. And I went to Shaw and played baseball and football. Majored in biology. Took all of my extra courses in chemistry. So, I essentially had a double major in chemistry and biology with an interest in going to medical school. This was probably cultivated by my mother who told me when I was in 6th grade she wanted me to be a doctor.

  Interviewer: Wow.

  Interviewee: I never forgot it.

  Interviewer: Your mother 鈥搊riginally she was working in the chemical plants after the war 鈥� is that what you were saying? And then was she still working with the military and everything like that?

  Interviewee: No, no, no, no. They worked for the government on a military base. A lot of women who couldn’t get jobs or didn’t get jobs 鈥� jobs had to be filled during the war. So, she worked at a chemical plant. And they were really making ammunition for the war effort.

  Interviewer: Wow.

  Interviewee: But she wanted me to be a doctor.

  Interviewer: Wow. What was it like going to high school and growing up in a time where it wasn’t as common to be pushed to go into medicine?

  Interviewee: Well, at the time there were five doctors in Raleigh 鈥� Black doctors in Raleigh. I didn’t particularly know any of them 鈥� knew some of their children. My chemistry teacher was married to a doctor. So, he was one of the internists 鈥� well, family doctors in Raleigh. And there were five other family doctors in Raleigh and one surgeon. So, we knew who they were. I just never came in contact with them.

  Interviewer: Yeah. Oh okay. That makes sense. Yeah. 鈥楥ause I know you were mentioning that your teachers 鈥� would you consider them to be some of the most influential people in your youth to getting you to where you are now? 鈥楥ause I also know it was your mother that contributed to that as well. So, how would you conceptualize that?

  Interviewee: Oh yes. They were also influential. There was a principal of my elementary school who also was influential. In fact, he was one who was influential in getting me to go to Ligon High School in Raleigh, which was the new high school in Raleigh, as opposed to going to Method where the students were certainly made to be farmers.

  Interviewer: Yeah. That’s great that it pushed you to be able to broaden your horizon and do whatever you needed to do.

  Interviewee: Right. Right.

  Interviewer: So, I did have a question. You said that you didn’t have much contact with the Black doctors in the Raleigh area. But did you have a family doctor or other doctor that influenced you in any way, or do you remember anyone?

  Interviewee: No family doctors. No family doctors.

  Interviewer: Okay. How did you guys receive medicine growing up?

  Interviewee: I’m sorry?

  Interviewer: I might have phrased that strangely. So, you didn鈥檛 have a family doctor when you were growing up?

  Interviewee: What’s that? We never went to the doctor.

  Interviewer: Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. Okay.

  Interviewee: No family doctors in the family, and my grandmother took care of us. She used home remedies.

  Interviewer: Yep. That goes far. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. So, you said after high school, you went to 鈥� was it Shaw University?

  Interviewee: Right.

  Interviewer: And you double majored biology and chemistry.

  Interviewee: Yes.

  Interviewer: I was wondering how did you get the push to go to college after high school instead of working or anything like that?

  Interviewee: Oh, that was easy. When I graduated from high school, you went to the military, you got a job working in the ditch, or you went to college. And that was it. We had no options.

  Interviewer: Yeah. That makes sense. That makes sense. So, it sounds like you had a really strong community around you. Friends and family and teachers and everything like that. So, it sounds like it’s good you were pushed on a path where college instead of the other options were where you wanted to end up.

  Interviewee: Right.

  Interviewer: So yeah. What year did you graduate from Shaw?

  Interviewee: I graduated 鈥�61.

  Interviewer: Okay. 鈥�61. And why did you end up choosing Shaw out of other universities?

  Interviewee: Well, only one that offered me a partial scholarship.

  Interviewer: Okay. That’s a good reason.

  Interviewee: That was the only reason. If someone else had offered me a scholarship, maybe I wouldn’t change my mind. But I had a partial scholarship. And I worked during the summers, and I was able to get by.

  Interviewer: Okay. So, that partial scholarship and working were how you were able to like finance college?

  Interviewee: Correct. College 鈥� at that time, I think my tuition was about $95, $100 a semester 鈥� a quarter.

  Interviewer: Wow.

  Interviewee: So cheap.

  Interviewer: Yeah. That’s good. Yeah. I feel like nowadays that’s the fees on something.

  Interviewee: That’s right.

  Interviewer: So yeah. You were saying that your mother was an influence on you considering a career in medicine. Can you tell me about any other people that influenced you to consider medicine? Or were there any enrichment programs for Black students back in the day that were interested in entering into medicine? For example, the MED program that they have in 黑料网 鈥� if there’s anything like that?

  Interviewee: No, no. There were no enrichment programs. At Shaw, Dr. Irons, who was chief of OB 鈥� I’m sorry, chief of biology 鈥� got his PhD from Michigan State. And he mentioned that at one time he wanted to go into medicine. And I think there was an illness in his family involving his mother. He ended up taking care of his mother and never got to medical school. And the chemistry professor suggested I take a job at 黑料网. After finishing Shaw, I worked in the Department of Biochemistry as a medical biology technician for the Department of Biochemistry. I made the reagents for the program for the dental hygiene students, dental students, and medical students.

  Interviewer: Wow.

  Interviewee: So, when I got to medical students 鈥� dental students initially, I was sitting on the classes. I鈥檇 just walk in, sit in the back, and observe. And, I said, 鈥淚 can do this.鈥� And the next year, medical students were introduced to Biochemistry 101. I sat in the back of the class again. And every day that they were there, I was there.

  Interviewer: Wow.

  Interviewee: We started from the introduction to biochemistry all the way up to the last test that they did. And also to the last experiment that they did. So, I was learning it as I went through. But I had no big-time root means of going to medical school. So, I decided to enroll in public health right across the street. So, I enrolled in public health. But I was gonna take a course in biochemistry in public health. At the same time, I was applying to 黑料网. I had gone to Duke University bookstore and got the MCAT. Got the latest MCAT. So, I had two MCATs. And I studied those MCATs every night for one year.

  Interviewer: Wow.

  Interviewee: I studied it. Started it after the news went off 鈥� 6:00. And I studied there until midnight. Dr. Irvin was chairman of the Department of Biochemistry 鈥� knew what I was doing. And they initially paid for my course in public health because of the chemistry element. So, Dr. Irvin is a Southern gentleman. Dr. Carl Anderson is a Northern gentleman. And both of those guys saw that I was interested in moving forward. I got their letter of recommendation. So, I applied. And was interviewed by Dr. Ike Taylor who was James Taylor’s daddy. James Taylor is the 鈥� you might remember him as the singer. He was big. He was big back in the 鈥�60s, 鈥�70s and still big. Well anyway, Dr. Ike interviewed me. And it was a great interview because Dr. Ike was one of the first guys at the university who had long hair. He was bald on the top, and his hair was sort of medium long on the sides. And he drove a green Porsche.

  Interviewer: Oh wow.

  Interviewee: So, he was cool. And so, when I was taking my exam 鈥� or my interview for medical school, one of the doctors who was in anatomy mentioned that the people in biochemistry thought highly of me. Next thing I know, I get a letter says I was accepted.

  Interviewer: Wow.

  Interviewee: I quit. I quit the course in public health and celebrated being admitted to medical school.

  Interviewer: Wow. That’s crazy. That’s great. Wow. So, I was wondering why did you end up applying to 黑料网. Did you 鈥� yeah.

  Interviewee: Well, yeah. I had applied to Ohio State and I applied to Vanderbilt, Wake Forest. Dr. Anderson says, 鈥淎pply to Wake Forest and Vanderbilt because I know someone there.鈥� And I applied to Carolina. And I was from North Carolina. It was right there at home And that was just the simplest, easiest thing to do. So, I took it.

  Interviewer: Yeah. What reputation did 黑料网 have among people that mattered to you?

  Interviewee: Oh. Oh, they were tops. Everybody knew about Chapel Hill. You either go to Chapel Hill and get well, or you’re gonna die. The country doctors referred their patients to Chapel Hill. And they’re gonna find out what’s wrong with you. So in my day, that was a place to go if you had a very serious illness. And if you had a doctor who recognized you and referred you there. So that was either you went to Carolina or you went to Duke. And that was it.

  Interviewer: Yeah. Did anyone encourage you or discourage you from applying to 黑料网?

  Interviewee: No. The only question that I’m aware of was an aunt of mine. My mother’s twin sister. And she questioned why I wanted to go to Carolina because of the history of the way Blacks were treated. Especially, 鈥�58, 鈥�59, 鈥�60. That was during the Civil Rights Movement. And what was happening in Chapel Hill and what was happening all around in Raleigh and everywhere else. So, my aunt questioned whether I should do that. But I wasn’t gonna stop because she was questioning it. So, that was the only drawback that I ever had in relation to going further. In fact, I still remember a man who was not in the family who 鈥� I was in high school. I would see him every day practically.

  And he would ask me about the football team and ask me about my classes. And I’d go to Shaw, he would ask me about my classes. When I finished Shaw, he says, 鈥淎re you going for your Masters?鈥�

  Interviewer: Wow.

  Interviewee: 听And this guy was just a common man who was probably in construction. And he was always asking me, 鈥淲hatchu gonna do next? And whatchu gonna do next? And whatchu gonna do next?鈥� And I remembered him. I still remember him to this very day.

  Interviewer: That sounds really encouraging just to have someone on your side.

  Interviewee: Yes.

  Interviewer: Even if you don’t know them that well.

  Interviewee: I knew him. Don’t remember his name. He knew the family. And he was just interested.

  Interviewer: That’s great. So now, you’re at 黑料网. So, I just wanted to know what was your time like at 黑料网 overall?

  Interviewee: Well, I鈥檇 go to class. I’m the only Black in class. And we’re in a gross anatomy and some kid says, 鈥淲hy is he here?鈥� And I heard it. And I just kept doing what I was doing. And for the most part for the first year, they didn’t talk to me. I went through classes every day. Never skipped classes. Labs. I did all the lab work. Studied like hell. Pumped out until 2:00 a.m. every night. Never drank beer. Never went to a party. Never had a vacation. Just work. Next year, things got a little bit better. After that, I felt better about myself. And just kept plugging away.

  Interviewer: How do you think things got better the second year? What changed?

  Interviewee: Probably familiarity. Kids saw what I was doing. I did what they did. So essentially, we got along better or got along at all.

  Interviewer: That’s good. At the time in your class, you were the only Black student?

  Interviewee: I was the only Black student.

  Interviewer: Wow.

  Interviewee: [Balaam] Elliot was in his fourth year. One guy ahead of me, and I don’t remember his name 鈥榗ause I didn’t talk to those guys. I was so busy keeping my head to the grind that I didn’t just talk to them. I knew they were there, but I did practically everything by myself.

  Interviewer: Yeah. It’s hard to talk to the older classes. 鈥楥ause I feel like I barely see the older classes these days either 鈥榗ause you鈥檙e just so in your own class and grinding. But wow.

  Interviewee: That’s right.

  Interviewer: Must鈥檝e been an experience being the only Black student in your class. So, I think you’ve talked a little bit about what it was like, but did you often think about being the only one? And if so, why?

  Interviewee: Yes. Oh yeah. I鈥檇 think about it all the time. But overall, I think my education at Carolina was as good as I could have ever gotten. In fact, I had compared myself to people in New York, Rochester, California, guys who were going to Harvard and LSU, Duke, Washington, San Francisco State, San Francisco, UCLA, USC. And personally, I felt I could measure up to any of them.

  Interviewer: That’s good.

  Interviewee: So, I know that I got excellent training. In fact, we still remember some of the old professors that were there then. And some of those guys were old then. But I remember practically all of them.

  Interviewer: Wow. I was wondering who were you closest to at 黑料网 between like students, faculty, administrators? And why were you close to them?

  Interviewee: Well, I guess I was closest to one of my classmates, John Hanna. The names were alphabetical order. So, there was Hall, Hanna. So, he was Syrian. Well, his family was Syrian. He told a story about his father coming to North Carolina. No, no. His father comes to the United States. And he ends up in North Carolina. Didn’t know where he was. Eventually, stayed there in Asheville in Blowing Rock. He lived in Blowing Rock. And he had a store that sold Persian rugs and that sort of thing. And Hanna went to Duke. He was a Duke graduate. And he got a big mouth. And Hanna used to, speak out and a lot of students didn’t like it.

  And I got along great with him because I talked to him more than anybody else, and he talked to me more than anybody else. So, I remembered him and I’ve been in contact with him even after I finished my training.

  Interviewer: What was he usually speaking out about that people didn’t really like to hear?

  Interviewee: Everything. He would mock Southern drawl. He’d mock people with Southern drawl. He just would talk out and tell jokes all the time. So he kept it light, at least for me.

  Interviewer: That’s good.

  Interviewee: But many people didn’t like him because he talked too much. But it was refreshing to me because I had nobody else to talk to for the most part.

  Interviewer: That鈥檚 funny.

  Interviewee: At least early on until after second year.

  Interviewer: Yeah. So, I was wondering do you recall facing hardships as a medical student? And did you ever doubt your own abilities as a med student? You can tell me a story about a time where you either felt unwelcome or felt like you didn’t belong. And you can maybe talk about if you ever felt imposter syndrome. It鈥檚 basically the sense of not belonging, especially in a really demanding environment like that. And if you’ve ever asked for help in those times.

  Interviewee: No. I never 鈥� it was tough. I worked hard. Didn’t get a lot of sleep. But I never felt that I wasn’t going to make it and that I shouldn’t be there.

  Interviewer: That’s good.

  Interviewee: Because that just wasn’t part of me to give up.

  Interviewer: That’s good.

  Interviewee: So, I never felt that way. In spite of what was happening, I never felt that way. I wish I鈥檇 had some more comrades, but I didn’t. So, I had to deal with what I had.

  Interviewer: Yeah. I know one of the reasons that you had decided on 黑料网 was because it was close to home. So, was being close to home, having your family and support system nearby, something that helped you not ever doubt yourself?

  Interviewee: Yeah. That and the mere fact that I was there. I worked there. I worked in the department of biochemistry there. So, it was like just moving from one floor to the next floor.

  Interviewer: You were already comfortable there.

  Interviewee: Yeah. Biochemistry lab was on the second floor. And gross anatomy was on the first floor. So, you don’t have to go far.

  Interviewer: Yeah. That’s good. So, I was wondering how did you finance your medical education.

  Interviewee: Believe it or not, a quarter at Carolina was about $750.

  Interviewer: Wow.

  Interviewee: I don’t know. I guess when I started medical school, I had about $2,000 and I was married. So, every quarter was only 鈥� oh. And then I got a grant in aid by applying for it. And essentially, I finished medical school and I only owed about $2,000.

  Interviewer: Yeah. That’s good. That鈥檚 really good. So, what kept you steady in your pursuit of your medical degree? You could tell about people, hobbies, sources of inspiration that helped you overcome any doubts.

  Interviewee: Well as I mentioned, there were people who early on had influenced me to continue and to study hard. Don’t let things convince you otherwise. Stay healthy. Don’t participate in drugs or alcohol. No such things as gangs. And I just guess I lived a sheltered life compared to what happens now. And once I got there, I was determined. There’s no turning back.

  Interviewer: Wow. That’s a great mindset to have. To just push forward. So beyond the 黑料网, what was residency like compared to the rigor of medical school? And what path did you decide to pursue within medicine specialty and everything?

  Interviewee: Yeah. When I was in medical school, I was thinking about pediatrics and then I made a rotation on psych. And I love psych. But I was thinking, 鈥淕ee whiz. I can’t make any money in Raleigh.鈥� And still my junior, senior year I was sort of debating OB versus 鈥� it was either OB or pediatrics. And then I get on my rotation on peds, and the first kid we had was a little kid that swallowed kerosene.

  Interviewer: Oh wow.

  Interviewee: And he shipped over from 鈥� I think he shipped from Wilmington up to Carolina. And the kid dies.

  Interviewer: Oh. That’s awful.

  Interviewee: And the next kid that I pick up is a little kid that has a Wilms tumor. And that kid never smiled. He was always sad. And I’m thinking, 鈥淥h my God. I don’t think I want pediatrics.鈥� Next kid was a little girl who was having hysterical hiccups. Her family was from Chapel Hill. And once they got her away from her family, her hiccups stopped. So oh, hysterical hiccups. That wasn’t so bad. I liked that one. Anyway, that had a big psych component to it. So, it fit in. But when I had my rotation on OB 鈥� the summer before that, I had a Duke endowment over at Lincoln Hospital in Durham. And a couple of Duke residents used to rotate and work in the clinic and also do surgery.

  Well, the attending there was fellow there who had his office. And he also, at one time, was taking care of the patient in the clinic. And one day, he was in his office. There was nobody in the clinic. Patient鈥檚 in labor. I went up there, delivered my first patient with the help of an old nurse.

  Interviewer: Wow.

  Interviewee: And then the next patient comes in the same day. With the help of a nurse, I learned to do episiotomies, I learned to put on forceps.

  Interviewer: Wow.

  Interviewee: I had to learn how to control bleeding after delivery. And when I got back to Carolina, I was hot. 鈥楥ause I had 25 to 30 deliveries during the summer.

  Interviewer: Wow. Yeah.

  Interviewee: So when I had my rotation in OB, I just loved it. Because I thought I had a connection and a big-time connection. And it was just OB.

  Interviewer: Wow.

  Interviewee: So, I applied to the University of Rochester. And Dr. 听鈥� oh gee. I can’t remember. But the chief of OB at that time recommended that I go to Rochester. And the reason he did it 鈥� he was recruiting me to come back to Carolina. But I go to Rochester, do my internship. It was physically hard. It’s not like medical school. Medical school was taxing psychologically because you’ve got to study and read and get new information. Medical residency in Rochester was physically hard because there were only three interns and two residents above me and two above them and one chief and a busy clinic. And my first year, I was working every other night.

  And in fact the first night I’m on OB, I walk in 8:00 in the morning. Hall: bed one. That was as close as I got to bed one. I worked all night and went home 鈥� come to find out it was 5:00 in the afternoon. So for 36 hours, I was up all night and working.

  Interviewer: Oh my gosh.

  Interviewee: And that’s the way it was for two years. But I was learning. As an intern, we did our own CBCs. We only did a finger stick and we did our own, our urinalysis. Patient would come in, we’d talk to ’em, get a history, the nurses were getting the vital signs. We did everything else. So, the university was getting good labor out of us.

  Interviewer: Yeah. Thirty-six hours. Wow. Yeah. So, it sounds like residency was much, much harder than medical school.

  Interviewee: Oh, residency was tough. It was just physically tough. But I had superb teaching.

  Interviewer: That’s great. Yeah. So in there, was there a special moment or event when you felt like you came into your own as a medical professional?

  Interviewee: Three things that probably helped me out the most. 1.) It was the chief at that time. Dr. Donovan. We used to have a mid-conference every Saturday morning. Which all of the OB doctors in town would come, and we’d present grand rounds. And the residents put on the grand rounds. This morning, Dr. Donovan had a D&C. Patient had a mole on her back. So, he asked me to take that mole off her back, then she could go home. So, I had never done anything like an incisional biopsy, anything like that. I do the incisional biopsy, took me an hour to close the incision.

  Interviewer: Wow.

  Interviewee: Anyway, the patient went home. Dr. Donovan told me she did well. And the second patient was a patient 鈥� I was doing a [inaudible][00:44:05] with one of the attendings and was advanced in the bladder. And then I stuck my finger in the bladder. And he was sitting there and he was calm and he was telling me, 鈥淭hat’s fine. That’s the way you do it. That’s the way you do it.鈥� The next thing I know, my finger鈥檚 in the bladder. So, we repaired the bladder, put a catheter in, sent her home, brought her back a week. Methylene blue was placed in. No methylene blue leaks. She’s fine. And the third case 鈥� the big case was a case that I had that I was telling my daughter about it just a week ago.

  A young girl from Rochester went down to Alabama to visit her family. And she’s in Alabama. She鈥檚 13-years-old. She’s got abdominal pain. And she goes to the emergency room. And they gave her aspirin and sent her home. She goes back into the emergency room another day or so. And they probably gave her ibuprofen or something and send her home. The third day she goes in, the family gets upset, put her on a plane, sent her back to Rochester. We get a phone call from the emergency room stating that ambulance is bringing this kid from Rochester. She was seen. She’s 13-years-old and has a hematocrit of 13. And I’m thinking, 鈥淏leeding. No blood seen. Ectopic pregnancy.鈥�

  So, she comes in. My attending is scrubbed with me. He turns his back on me as I start making the incision. I had been watching surgery up until this time. Probably have seen four or five ectopics. I’d seen several hysterectomies, C-sections. Never done one. And I make my incision. I get in. I see blood. Lots of blood. So I’m sucking, sucking, sucking, sucking. Get the blood out. Found the source of bleeding. My attending turns his back on me and starts talking to the nurse. I see him look across his shoulder once in a while. And I’m thinking, 鈥淵ou gotta stop the bleeding.鈥� I didn’t panic. 鈥淵ou gotta stop the bleeding.鈥� So, I put a clamp across the fallopian tube. Sucked and sucked and sucked. No bleeding. So, then I took out the tube, stitched her appropriately, unpacked her, closed her. And then he helped me close the incision.

  But I learned from that case. And I learned, No. 1) You gotta stay cool. You can’t panic. You can’t panic. And think. And you gotta think on your feet. So that incident and that first case set the stage for me. I had never panicked anymore ever regardless of what was happening in surgery.

  Interviewer: Wow. Yeah.

  Interviewee: I just never panicked. I never thought I had to panic anymore. And I thought that I was capable regardless of what happened. And I never forgot that case. And I was looking in a newspaper in Rochester this year. And I saw where this attending had died. And I really wanted to talk to his kids and tell them about the good things his daddy did for me. And I remembered it. And it’s like 50 years since then. But I didn’t. I decided not to do it. But anyway, those three things with my residency probably were the three biggest things that made me who I am.

  Interviewer: Wow.

  Interviewee: Because I learned I had to learn on my feet, No. 1. And No. 2.) I had some people who felt that a complication like the bladder was something that can happen. And not to panic. And I repaired. And everything turned out okay. So, I just learned on my feet.

  Interviewer: Wow. Yeah. Those are some big moments. As you were explaining them to me I’m like, 鈥淲ow.鈥� I can feel how much detail you remember as well. You really brought us there with the story.

  Interviewee: Yeah. I remembered all of that.

  Interviewer: Yeah. And so, I would also like to say you mentioned this attending, but who were your most influential career mentors and what did you learn from them?

  Interviewee: Well, Dr. Donovan. He was the chief of OB. Donovan had a detached retina, and he had very thick glasses. But he could make you think. He used to go down to the emergency room and look at all of the histories that were taken by residents on patients who came in OB/GYN that week. And he’d take out two or three and bring them back for teaching purposes. And he could take one case and tear it apart 鈥� make you tear it apart. And with his knowledge and direction, we learned what they should鈥檝e done and could鈥檝e done regardless of what was happening with the patient who came in to be seen in the emergency room. So, this was terrific learning. Not only that. Donovan was on the board.

  So, he was teaching us questions they ask on the boards when you get your boards for OB/GYN. He was like that. Two other guys who were on the board were like that. So, we got essentially board training in residency. This was fantastic. So, I had two fantastic experiences.

  Interviewer: That’s great. Yeah. It seems like you were really pushed by all of your mentors in the past. So, that鈥檚 really good.

  Interviewee: Oh yeah. We were pushed, and you had to hold your own. Because hey, we had guys in my residency who were top-notch. Guys from Harvard and Duke and Princeton, LSU, South Carolina, whose mentors were big guys in the OB world. So, you had to learn and it was good learning.

  Interviewer: Wow. That’s good. So, I wanted to ask more about passing on the torch. So, how does being a Black physician matter in your workplace, family, and community?

  Interviewee: Well right now, I’ve retired. So, in my family, there were two cousins鈥� kids who went into medicine. I think they went to Bowman Gray. There were no other doctors that I’m aware of. And I left New York, came to California after my residency, and my first job was with Kaiser. And Kaiser was big. And Kaiser was busy. And they had a lot of patients. We had, one year, six brand-new guys, all recent graduates. And then they had six other older guys. So, we really did have a big-time OB department. In fact, they used to brag that this was the only place that you could go to and get a doctor, a board-certified OB/GYN, 24 hours a day.

  Interviewer: Wow.

  Interviewee: And we had Native American. We had one and then two Black guys. We had Japanese guy. We had a Chinese guy. We had everything. So regardless of what you wanted, thought you wanted, or thought you needed, we had it there. And I was part of it. And then the next guy comes in too. So, both of us were a big part of the OB staff. And I did a lot of teaching for conferences. At that time, Kaiser was training nurse practitioners with nurses. And nobody else in California had a nurse practitioner program except Kaiser. And I was one of the guys who was recommended to be one of the instructors. And I treated those nurses like interns. And everybody treated them like interns.

  And Kaiser hired all seven of them. There were seven girls in this group. Kaiser hired all seven of them. By the time we got through to them, they were great. So here and again, we had a very mixed group of people. And nobody had to feel any problems related to physicians or ethnicities or whatever. And I was part of it. In fact, after that, we started the first high-risk OB clinic at Panorama Kaiser.

  Interviewer: Oh wow.

  Interviewee: This was 1975 or 鈥�76. And after that, they jumped up all over the country. But we had help. We had top-notch guys from USC and UCLA rotating through Kaiser at night so that the doctors on call could get some rest. And we had the top-notch guys from USC coming through and UCLA coming through. And man oh man, you couldn’t beat that training. So, some of the guys 鈥� I think one of the OB/GYN oncologists 鈥� Phil Desai was an intern and resident with one of my attendings in Rochester. So, I had a connection with him. And then there was another guy from USC who was one of the top guys in fetal monitoring who knew Chuck Holder, who was my resident.

  So, we had a little bit of connection with 鈥� at least I did 鈥損ersonally. And if I hadn’t had the training at Carolina, I wouldn’t have been in that position. So, I always felt that I had excellent training from 黑料网, and always felt that I couldn’t beat.

  Interviewer: Yeah. That’s great. And what has your experience taught you about ways to support present-day minority students and communities?

  Interviewee: No. 1.) You gotta be healthy. And when I say healthy, I’m a big proponent of no drugs of any kind. I didn’t use drugs growing up. I did used to smoke cigarettes when I could get one. Cigarettes being 15 cents a pack was cheap. Having been an athlete, I was healthy. So, I had no medical problems. And you need to have some degree of health. You gotta be inquisitive. And you gotta say, 鈥淣obody, no board, no arm is gonna stop me. I am gonna go. I’m gonna determine. I’m gonna get there. I don’t care what it takes.鈥� And that’s the way I felt. That I was gonna get there. I wasn’t gonna let anything stop me. But the reward is great. And what you give back is great. I’ve been fortunate to graduate from medical school and working for 50 years.

  And I鈥檇 see patients at Costco and other places would say, 鈥淒r. Hall. You delivered my kid.鈥� I don’t remember that kid. And I’ve been to meetings at the hospital. A nurse comes up and says, 鈥淵ou delivered my son. He’s 18.鈥� I don’t remember him. So, medicine was good. Rewarding. One of the best. You gotta work at it, and you gotta like it. And if you don’t like it, you’re not gonna do it. Or you won’t do it well, and you’re gonna miss out if you do. But I’ve had some good experiences. I had a patient’s mother called me and told the nurses, 鈥淗e delivered my son 40 years ago.鈥� And I said, 鈥淲hoa. I didn’t remember her. Didn’t remember the son.

  And then one day, I had two patients who called and said, 鈥淗e delivered my son 40 years ago.鈥� In fact, one of the mothers sent me a picture of her son. And he鈥檚 30-years-old, 40-years-old, and he’s living in New York City. He’s a banker in New York City. So, the other patient called me and told the nurses that, 鈥淗e took care of me 40 years ago, and he saved my life.鈥� She probably had ectopic pregnancy. Anyway, when they mentioned her name, I remembered her. And the reason I remembered her, she had a name that nobody else had. That’s why I remember that name. But anyway, getting back to your original question. You gotta like what you wanna do. You gotta wanna do it.

  You can always learn, regardless of what happens. Superfluous things like race, put downs 鈥� these sort of things should fly over your shoulder. Your ideal situation is the one that you want. And that’s the one that you chose to follow regardless of what happened. And that’s what I did. So, I think that’s easy to do now. The biggest thing now, to me, seems to be medical school cost off the chart. A little bit of health residency. By the time you finish internship and residency, you owe hundreds of thousands of dollars. That, to me, seems like the biggest thing that you’re gonna face. You gotta borrow the money. And thank goodness, things are changing. You may get some help in the future from changing in presidents and the like. But at one time, this big thing about money was big. I know an OB/GYN lady who told me that two of her classmates, both OB/GYN 鈥� over $200,000 after finishing residency. Well, that was unheard of in my day. And as I mentioned, I only owed like $2,000 when I got through and paid it off in the first year. But I learned a lot about myself. And I learned to find things that were enjoyable that were cheap and that you can do it free. And you gotta like it, and you gotta want it. Because many times you can learn more than 鈥� you鈥檙e gonna get more out of it than what you put in. And that’s what I think. That’s what I like. I think I got more out of it than what I put into it.

  Interviewer: Yeah. That’s good. Okay.

  Interviewee: The mere incidence of having to work so hard means you gotta look at the other things, and you gotta evaluate other ways. And by doing that, you’re enriching yourself.

  Interviewer: That’s true. Thank you. So I do wonder over your whole career, of what are you the proudest?

  Interviewee: What am I the proudest?

  Interviewer: Yes.

  Interviewee: I don’t know. I don’t know what I’m the proudest of most. Only job I ever had. So, sticking to it for 50 years.

  Interviewer: Yeah. Sticking to it.

  Interviewee: That’s right. Sticking to it for 50 years.

  Interviewer: There you do. Helping so many people, so many patients. Having an impact on so many lives that people keep calling you 40 years later like, 鈥淗ey. You remember me?鈥�

  Interviewee: That’s right. I had two patients the same day. The nurses went wild Couldn鈥檛 believe it.

  Interviewer: Yeah. That’s definitely something to be proud of 鈥� the impact you’ve made on people’s lives over your whole career.

  Interviewee: Yeah.

  Interviewer: Okay. And so, this is my final question. So, what advice would you give to current Black medical students such as myself?

  Interviewee: Okay. Be prepared for big changes coming down the pipe in medicine. Medicine is not gonna be like you thought it was gonna be when you were a kid. With AI and the advances in medicine now, in the future you’re probably going to be a biomedical engineer as opposed to a MD. Except for those who are going to go into surgical residencies. I expect that you go to the doctor or you might even check in by your iPad and you’re gonna give them your symptoms. You get to, get to the doctor’s office, you’re gonna take the vital signs. And on the basis of IE or AI rather, you’re gonna say, 鈥淚n 5,000 people, we found that if you have these symptoms in this group of labs, the most likely diagnosis is this.鈥�

  And you will be treated, and you may not even be seen by the doctor. So, expect some big changes. You gotta be prepared for. But the way that they’re preparing doctors now, I think they’re gonna be in pretty good shape. But be prepared that it’s probably not gonna be what you think it is. It鈥檚 going to be so advanced. Especially now that they’re talking about the kid 鈥� one kid who’s alive who got gene therapy for sickle cell anemia. And 50 other kids who are in certain stages of treatment. And this little kid 鈥� 13-year-old boy has gone home. And so, that sort of stuff is gonna change medicine dramatically.

  Interviewer: Definitely.

  Interviewee: So, all these diseases we’re treating with medications, I think probably a lot of them are gonna be treated in other 鈥� and it’s probably gonna be gene therapy and immunotherapy and this sort of thing. And not everybody鈥檚 gonna be given ibuprofen. So, be prepared for big changes.

  Interviewer: Yeah. That is something that we’ve been learning more about. We’ve had a couple lessons on AI. At least with AI and writing HPIs, that’s something that’s being very much used these days.

  Interviewee: Yeah.

  Interviewer: Yeah. But thank you so, so much for taking the time out of your busy schedule to talk to me and to tell me about your life and to give me advice. And just to let us know about what your experiences were and what your life was like as the only Black student in your class all the way in the 1960s. So thank you so, so much.

  Interviewee: Yeah. I was looking at some of the recorded interviews that you had with other students. And I was thinking 鈥� I felt so bad. I said, 鈥淟ook at these kids. They got so much stuff.鈥� 鈥楥ause they had people who could talk to. So, many of them. Most of them probably had more going for 鈥榚m than I did when I started medical school. They had impressive histories.

  Interviewer: I think you’re all very impressive.

  Interviewee: And I was blown by it. So, I was thinking, 鈥淕ee. They had a whole lot. They had it better than we did.鈥� But that’s okay. Most of the guys that I know who went to Carolina above me turned out to be very influential people. I only knew two or three of them, but those guys who were there when I was there did well.

  Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. You guys have 鈥� just looking through the alums and the people that are around the time of you. And everybody’s made such an incredible impact in their communities and the country even globally. So, it is big shoes to follow.

  Interviewee: Yeah. Right.

  Interviewer: Definitely.

  Interviewee: Don’t give up.

  Interviewer: Yes. Thank you.

  Interviewee: Don’t give up.

  Interviewer: It’s been very encouraging to hear you speak and talk about your experiences. And even when it gets rough, you can just get through it and keep going.

  Interviewee: That’s right.

  Interviewer: Yeah. And then hopefully I’m gonna have a bunch of patients calling me someday like, 鈥淒o you remember me?鈥� But thank you again so much for doing this interview with me. I’m about to stop the recording in a moment. But I was just wondering if there’s anything else that I maybe didn’t remember to ask about or speak on that you think would be very important to include.

  Interviewee: No. Just the other thing is you gotta be flexible. And what I mean by flexible 鈥� you gotta consider all options and you may have to make some options. But you’ve gotta be flexible in your thinking. And eventually possibility of being flexible in what you choose for life. And where you鈥檙e gonna go? But you always gotta look up. A lady told me if you, 鈥淚f life knocks you down, fall on your back. 鈥楥ause if you can look up, you can get up.鈥�

  Interviewer: There you go. That’s a good quote. That’s a good quote.

  Interviewee: So, I never forgot that.

  Interviewer: Yeah. Make sure to fall on my back. 鈥楥ause sometimes I’m sure life will knock me down on this journey.

  Interviewee: That鈥檚 right. You get knocked down in a lot situations. But get back up.

  Interviewer: Yeah. Definitely. Thank you so much. Okay.

  Interviewee: Okay. Well, I enjoyed this.

  Interviewer: Yeah. I enjoyed this as well. This is very informational. It was really nice talking to you.

  Interviewee: What level are you? Are you first-year medical 鈥�

  Interviewer: I’m an M1. Yeah. I’m a first-year medical student.

  Interviewee: Why are you doing this now?

  Interviewer: In my SHS class, my instructor actually had mentioned this project with working with the Black 黑料网 alum.

  Interviewee: Okay.

  Interviewer: Yeah. He asked if I wanted to be involved and I was like, 鈥淵es. That sounds really cool.鈥� And I’m also getting involved with 鈥搕hey鈥檙e about to do elections and stuff. And I’m also trying to get involved with SNMA. Some of the students that were in the previous older years had been really involved in getting this project started.

  Interviewee: Right.

  Interviewer: So, just hearing about the project was like, 鈥淥h wow. I really do wanna get involved with this.鈥�

  Interviewee: One other thing. 1970, I was an intern in Rochester. I got a phone call from somebody from Carolina asking me if I wanted to come back and interview kids from historical Black colleges who were applying for medical school. Well, I was thinking, 鈥淕ee. How can I do that? I’m in Rochester. I’m 570 miles away. How can I come back and interview somebody and do my internship here?鈥� So, I didn’t do anything else, and it sorta dropped. And then we heard about it thereafter. But this goes back to 1970. Really.

  Interviewer: Yeah. 1970. Wow. In getting HBCU students involved. That’s great.

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  Duration: 78 minutes

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About

Dr. Lynous Hall is a native to the Research Triangle, born in Raleigh, North Carolina in 1939. He attended Ligon High School, a new Black high school in Raleigh that would let him pursue options other than farming. He was pushed by his teachers and community to pursue higher education and received a partial scholarship to Shaw University where he double majored in biology and chemistry. His mother encouraged him to become a physician, and he continued that journey at 黑料网 as a technician for the Department of Biochemistry. In his pursuit of medicine, Dr. Hall worked, sat in on classes, studied for the MCAT, and enrolled in courses at the School of Public Health. His efforts were acknowledged by the Department of Biochemistry who provided him with strong recommendations to attend 黑料网. He was accepted to 黑料网 as the only black student in the class of 1969. Dr. Hall graduated from 黑料网 well-equipped for his Obstetrics residency at the University of Rochester. Outside of residency, he was shaped by his first job at Kaiser Permanente- Panorama where he was part of a diverse team of physicians running Kaiser鈥檚 first high risk OB clinic.